Just Shut Up And Play That Guitar- Lucero's Ben Nichols

Singer/songwriter Ben Nichols of Memphis, Tennessee's Lucero was kind enough to talk with me a bit after an instore appearance in Baltimore in support of Lucero's fifth full length, "Nobody's Darlings".

Me: So I take it these things (instore appearances) can be pretty rough on you?

Ben: They can be. Actually on this tour for the new record they've been pretty good. People actually...you know, a nice little crowd shows up, and um....nah, so none of'em have been too painful. We got a parking ticket in Philadelphia 'cause there was no place to park, but other than that they've actually been alright this time around. Usually they suck really hard though.

Me: How's the general reaction been to the new record?

Ben: Its been really good, we've sold...the cd's been selling real well and, uhb we've had....with the new record deal that we did there's a little more cash for publicity, so there's more reviews, good and bad, but mainly good. People are sticking with us, which is really nice. This time around we felt like making a pretty straight ahead rock and roll record, not a lot of extra stuff on there, its just two guitars, bass, drums.

Me: So did you record the record live?

Ben: Yeah, pretty much. We did like four or five takes of each song, and then picked the best one. And really... we were working with this guy Jim Dickinson who produced "Pleased To Meet Me" from the Replacements...

Me: Yeah, that's my favorite Replacements record.

Ben: God, that's a good one. His job, basically...we went in with the idea of making a rock and roll record, real stripped down, bare bones kinda rock and roll record. And so his job once we got in there was to record the songs and make sure we didn't go back and fuck'em up with a whole lotta editing , you know, a lotta whatever. And we didn't, we just kinda played it real straight.

Me: Sabot did the vinyl version?

Ben: Yeah, Sabot put out the vinyl. So yeah, they're in charge of that. That means its getting done right.

Me: So what made you decide to go for the more stripped down sound as opposed to what you did for the last record?

Ben: Ah...I think these songs just kinda lent themselves to that. When I wrote'em I was in the mood to write more rock and roll type songs and... so yeah, the songs kinda dictated the method, I guess, and ah..so yeah thats how they came out.

Me: I like that you don't do the same record twice.

Ben: Nah, we haven't, and luckily people have stuck with us through four records. And yeah, the next one could be completely acoustic and all slow songs, I have no idea what the next record will be like. Or it could be more southern rock than this one even, I don't know. But yeah, I was talking to somebody about this the other day where they're like "Are you learning how to make a record better each time you make one?" and really, each experience has been so different that its kinda like, I'm learning new stuff each time, but we're doing each record so differently that I can't really compile it all into one big experience. Each one's got a different feel to it, and I learn something different from each one, but its not really cumulative. Its not adding up to one super record. I don't know, maybe one day I'll figure out how to do that.

Me: I doubt most people ever learn, honestly.

Ben: I don't know. I haven't.. I'm still making... each time in the studio I'm still learning stuff.

Me: When you write do you write song by song, or do you think "This one is definately gonna be the first song on the record...."

Ben: Nah, its pretty much just song by song. And yeah, I just start off with a couple of guitar parts that go nice and then I find a vocal melody, and I think thats where most of the punch really comes in is just.....two chords, and they go this way, and then a vocal melody that goes that way and it fits together, and that's kinda what grabs ya. And then you've gotta come up with lyrics that just don't fuck it up. And they don't have to be really good or really deep, um, it helps if they are I guess sometimes, but as long as they're not real bad, it can still be a real powerful song I guess.

Me: Yeah, its more about the feeling than what's actually said.

Ben: Yeah, the way the vocals lay over the chords, its all right there.

Me: It sounds like you're getting a better idea of how to lay vocals over the songs.

Ben: Maybe so. I don't know, that might just be these types of songs, with the more southern rock/classic rock influence on'em. I've been listening to a bunch of, you know, Bruce Springsteen and, I dunno, Tom Petty, that stuff...

Me: I hear that on the record, I also hear a little bit of an early 70's Rolling Stones influence.

Ben: Yeah, there's a little bit of that. Yeah, its just...we've been making more indie rock or more country type records in the past and this one is just rock and roll.

Me: It sounds like they've kinda gotten more rock as they've gone.

Ben: Yeah, each one's gotten a little louder. Yeah, like, I guess the first one was done a lot like this one, it was recorded live, but then we went back and had Luther and Cody Dickinson, and even Jim Dickinson, 'cause we recorded it in the same place as this last one, and they went back and played really cool piano parts or really cool guitar parts, or slide, ah...and then Tennessee was... we kinda gave that one to Cody Dickinson and just let him go crazy with it, and we kinda just, yeah, we were kinda more hands off with that one, and thats why it came out more produced sounding I think. And then with Further West we just did it all ourselves, and ah..so it was kinda in between the two. It was recorded track by track 'cause we were doing it ourselves. And so this last one we just went in there and knocked'em out and that was that.

Me: Now, you write all the songs, right?

Ben: Yeah.

Me: How much of a role does the rest of the band take in how the final song comes out?

Ben: It actually....some of'em...that's song by song too. Usually I'll at least have the song put together and I'll have a vocal melody, and then I'll take it to the band, sometimes I got words already, sometimes I don't, but um...yeah, then you take it to the band I'll have an idea maybe of a drum part that I want, and sometimes that's the drum part that ends up on it, sometimes its something completely different....so yeah, its a song before I take it to the band, then once the band gets ahold of it, it becomes a Lucero song.

Me: The drumming is one of the things thats really most original about the band I think.

Ben: Yeah, Roy's a really original (laughs) person.

Me: It sounds like he takes a lot of influence from a lot of electronic type stuff.

Ben: Oh yeah, yeah, a lot of electronic stuff, a lot of rap stuff, hip hop stuff. Yeah, a lot of just wierd shit. Um, yeah, he's a really interesting guy, really wierd guy.

Me: Yeah, like I said, every record's different, but there's always Roy's unorthodox drumming and there's always that twin guitar thing you guys do thats real distinct.

Ben: Yeah, thats cool that you hear that, because I think both of those elements are really important to what we do and uh..yeah, I don't know, I never think of us as a real band or that great of a band really, but its nice to hear stuff like that every now and then and be like "ah, maybe we do do something kinda cool".

Me: Yeah, every body probably looks at it that way. You're your own harshest critic.

Ben: I hope so, hahaha.

Me: Its probably better that way, that way you weed out the stuff you really hate before anyone gets a chance to hear it.

Ben: Yeah, going back and editing is..especially the lyric writing, is very important. If you can kinda set a bar, and try to hit that, its good for you.

Me: Yeah, one of the things I thought was cool about That Much Further West was how the early copies came with that demos CD, it was cool to hear different lyrics, things like that.

Ben: Yeah, thats exactly....most of those songs were demos, and for the ones that didn't have demos, I went back and recorded them as if I was recording demos. Like "Comin' Home", on That Much Further West, it changed key, and it changed time signatures even, and became...its just a completely different take on that song. And "Across The River" became a rock song, with heavy metal guitar solos and stuff in it. It was cool to get a second shot at some of those, and I like both versions. I hope people think its interesting to hear, you know, different takes on the same songs.

Me: Where did the inspiration for "The War" come from? That's pretty different from anything else you've written.

Ben: Yeah, thats ah...my grandfather was in Europe during World War II, and um, so yeah, I got a bazillion songs about relationships and girls and drinking, and then he pops up kind of as a topic in...there's a song on The Attic Tapes, thats the first stuff we ever did, there's a song on there called "The Blue And The Gray" and thats kinda based on him, and this is kinda "The Blue And The Gray" part two. Actually, the chorus of it came..I was reading about the Civil War, and a preacher giving a sermon before they went in, and some guy's speakin' up and saying "why don't you eat with us" and all that. That is from a Civil War book, but then the rest of its based on my Grandad's story kinda.

Me: Yeah, you've mentioned him before on other records...

Ben: In "Joining The Army," yeah.

Me: Yeah, it seemed like that song...its a powerful song, but then you take "The War" and its more like...

Ben: Yeah, its more a full song, and more in depth. Yeah, it was actually one of the first songs I wrote out of the new record.

Me: I was glad to see it was on there, I wasn't sure if it was gonna be.

Ben: Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was gonna be neither, and I'm glad it ended up on there too.

Me: Is there anything else you wanted to say?

Ben: Nah, nah, thank you very much.

Me: Thank you, thanks for taking the time to sit down and talk for a bit.

Ben: No problem.

Nobody's Darlings is out now on Lucero's own Liberty And Lament label, and can be purchased at www.luceromusic.com , which also has tour dates for throughout the summer.